Alex Henderson

Interview: Joe Farnsworth 

By Alex Henderson

 
Although Joe Farnsworth has only recorded sporadically as a leader, his list of sideman credits reads like a Who’s Who of jazz. The veteran drummer, now 52, has backed heavyweights including tenor saxophonists Benny Golson, Pharoah Sanders, Junior Cook and Eric Alexander, baritone saxophonist Cecil Payne and pianists Harold Mabern and Cedar Walton. Farnsworth, originally from Massachusetts, has spent much of his adult life in New York City and has a long association with the Upper West Side club Smoke. His new album as a leader, Time to Swing, has been released on its in-house Smoke Sessions label, Farnsworth leading a band of trumpeter Wynton Marsalis, pianist Kenny Barron and bassist Peter Washington. During a recent interview, Farnsworth discussed Time to Swing and some of the many jazz icons he has worked with over the years.

The New York City Jazz Record: Time to Swing isn’t your first album, but is your first for Smoke Sessions. How did your association with Smoke come about?

Joe Farnsworth: In 1993, I took over playing every night at a place called Augie’s, which is Smoke now. I was there playing every Friday and Saturday. It was a godsend to me. I brought in everybody: Junior Cook, John Ore, Cecil Payne, Big John Patton, Dizzy Reece. So many guys—Julian Priester, Harold Mabern. [Guitarist] Paul Stache was working there and then Paul and his friend [Frank Christopher] took over and started Smoke. And so, when Smoke opened up in 1999, I played the very first weekend, the grand opening. And I convinced Paul to get George Coleman and Harold Mabern. I said, “When you get someone like George Coleman, then that makes the club much better. It raises everybody’s game.” And then [in 2013] Paul started his record label, Smoke Sessions. That club is family to me, it’s a home away from home.

TNYCJR: The late Harold Mabern featured you on some of his albums for Smoke Sessions.

JF: I brought Harold to Smoke. We got a Rhodes for him. Harold played there when it was Augie’s, in fact. It wasn’t even Smoke then. And Harold was hesitant to go up there to Augie’s and play a Rhodes, but he did and he loved it. I was the first one to bring him up there.

TNYCJR: Jazz clubs certainly come and go. Many New Yorkers who know Smoke never saw it as Augie’s.

JF: Augie’s was a dump. It was kind of a college hangout. They didn’t charge a cover and they used to pass the hat. Augie’s was very vibrant, but it was a little too low-brow for some of the really big-name guys. When Paul took over and it became Smoke, he changed everything. They went from zero cover charge to $30, $40. They made it into a real club.

TNYCJR: You have played with so many jazz icons who are no longer living.

JF: When Harold Mabern died, one of the things I missed was that Harold could bring you back to 1950. I mean, he used to talk about picking cotton in Memphis as a kid—and he would make you feel like you were right there. Harold had so many stories. There are so many stories in jazz.

TNYCJR: You’ve played with Eric Alexander a great deal. He was one of the Young Lions in the late ‘80s-early ‘90s; now he is 52 and helping the young musicians out.

JF: I met Eric at William Paterson [University] in 1987.

TNYCJR: So, you knew Eric about half a decade before his first album as a leader, Straight Up (Delmark, 1992)?

JF: Yeah, Straight Up with Harold Mabern, George Fludas. I went to William Paterson and met Harold in 1986 and Eric came there in ’87. So Eric, Harold and myself basically started that relationship in ’87. And then, once I graduated in 1990, we started hiring Harold for gigs. We would get gigs and give him all the money just to have Harold Mabern there.

TNYCJR: Eric and Harold had such a close relationship. Eric played as a sideman on Harold’s albums and Harold played as a sideman on Eric’s albums. And you were on many of those albums, whether it was Eric leading or Harold leading.

JF: Yes. Ever since I met Eric in 1987, we learned together. We did sessions together every night in college for three years and we went to New York City together. We both wanted the same things. There were two main groups for us: the George Coleman Quartet was a big school for us, and the other one was Cedar Walton. Those were the two camps that we loved. Me and Eric both wanted to be in those two camps and it was almost the same journey. Through Eric and Harold, I got to play with George Coleman and to this day, I still play with George a lot. I was fortunate to play with a lot of great tenor players, man: Junior Cook, Johnny Griffin, Pharoah Sanders, George Coleman, Benny Golson, Eric Alexander. George recommended me to Pharoah Sanders. I was with Pharoah Sanders for 16 years. I was with Pharoah from like 2000-2016, and that was all because of George Coleman.

TNYCJR: You played with Wynton Marsalis in the past.

JF: I had made a record with Wynton before called Live At The House of Tribes—a live record for Blue Note—and I always wanted to do another record date with him. For many, many years, I just waited and waited to make another record with Wynton. And we did this movie recently called "Motherless Brooklyn"; so, we reconnected and we did some movie release parties. I just knew now was the time. I asked Wynton, and he said yes. So, I automatically went to Smoke Sessions.

TNYCJR: You use different combinations: quartet performances, trios and a solo drums feature.

JF: Wynton is a busy guy. So, I was just glad he could do it and I certainly wasn’t going to be greedy and ask him to do a whole date. I asked him just to do four tunes. The way I planned it was almost like an old record date, a vinyl date, a Side A and Side B. Side A, we go in there and play trio with Kenny Barron and Peter Washington. And then, you flip over to Side B and Wynton Marsalis joins us.

TNYCJR: How long have you known Kenny Barron?

JF: I used to sit there in awe for 25 years at Bradley’s, watching Kenny with Ray Drummond and Ben Riley. And of course, I saw Kenny in the group Sphere, I used to love that group with Charlie Rouse. Bradley’s was where I really saw Kenny Barron a lot. When Kenny did this record I asked him what he wanted to play. I wanted to play tunes that he wanted to play because he certainly has a wider variety of experiences than me. I learned that with Junior Cook a long time ago: instead of telling these people what to play, I love asking them what they want to play.

TNYCJR: You play Duke Ellington’s “Prelude to a Kiss” as a bossa nova.

JF: That’s what happens when you get Kenny Barron: you’re free to do anything. I knew we were going to play Kenny’s tune “Lemuria” and I knew we were going to play “Monk’s Dream” by Thelonious Monk.

TNYCJR: Kenny has always had a broad repertoire.

JF: Some guys just don’t know many tunes. But guys like Kenny Barron, they know tunes. Harold Mabern knew tunes. Barry Harris knows tunes. And Kenny Barron knows tunes. When I was planning the record, I thought, “I have Wynton Marsalis, I have Peter Washington, if Kenny Barron would just say yes, that would bring everything to the date: maturity, knowledge, swing, blues, history, everything.” And Kenny couldn’t have been any nicer.

TNYCJR: Ellington-Strayhorn’s “The Star-Crossed Lovers” is done as a trio with Kenny.

JF: We did “Lemuria” in one take and we did “The Star-Crossed Lovers” in one take. Kenny nailed it, man, nailed it. It was right there on his fingertips. Kenny has a hell of a presence on the piano. That’s why you get Kenny Barron. I think all the takes were one take.

TNYCJR: “One for Jimmy Cobb” is your solo feature.

JF: Yeah. It came to me: I should do something for Jimmy Cobb. I was just thinking about [late drummer] Jimmy Cobb and how soulful he was, how great he was as a human being. Just solid. So, I tried to base it on his personality more than anything.

TNYCJR: One of the most soulful things you do on Time to Swing is the spiritual “Down by the Riverside”. Wynton is really digging into his New Orleans heritage.

JF: I asked Wynton what all he wanted to play, what ballad he wanted to play, what up tune he wanted to play. For an up tune, he suggested “Hesitation”, which I hadn’t heard him play since his debut record with Ron Carter and Tony Williams. And I said to Wynton,“Let’s play something like gospel.” He wanted to do “Down by the Riverside”. I used to think it was an Irish song. “Down by the Riverside” is a tune that my best friend’s father used to sing. I didn’t realize it was a spiritual. And the way Wynton described it was funny. He said, “You’ve gotta play it like those church ladies who are trying to swing it on the tambourine, but aren’t really swinging.” So, it’s swinging, but it’s not swinging like a Kenny Clarke swing. It’s an old church lady tambourine swing.

TNYCJR: Your tune “The Good Shepherd” also has a spiritual mood.

JF: Yes. I was thinking about all the good shepherds in the jazz world. It’s such a crabs-in-the-barrel world, where people try to take you down or they don’t pay you well. There’s so much negativity connected to it. But you have all these good shepherds, who gave me their time after I got to town and they could have easily said no. Junior Cook could have easily told me no, he didn’t want to play up at Augie’s for 100 bucks, but he said yes. He gave us lessons and showed us things that he learned from Horace Silver. Another good shepherd was Lou Donaldson, telling us about playing funky and playing for the people. The good shepherds help you. They don’t bring you down, they lift you up. Another good shepherd was McCoy Tyner. I played in McCoy’s group during the last part of his life.

TNYCJR: Another one of your associations was with Cecil Payne, the great baritone saxophonist. JF: Before Augie’s was Smoke, I started hiring Junior Cook for the club and Junior Cook introduced me to Cecil Payne. Junior hired me for a Jazzmobile concert and this one was in Brooklyn. I got there early and Cecil was the only one there. Oh, man, I was so nervous. This was Cecil Payne, the original bebop baritone player with Dizzy Gillespie. I walked up and said hi to him. I was so nervous that I flubbed my last name and Cecil thought I said “photographer” and Cecil said, “I’m not really wanting to take pictures now.” So, we went up there and played and Cecil turned around and said, “Oh, man, you sound really good. You’re a really good drummer for a photographer.” 

For more information, visit joefarnsworthdrums.com. Farnsworth live-streams with George Coleman Nov. 6th-7th, Veronica Swift Nov. 13th-14th and Ron Carter Nov. 27th-28th, all at smokejazz.com.

Recommended Listening:

• Cecil Payne (featuring Karen Borca)— Cerupa (Delmark, 1993)

• One For All—Upward and Onward  (Criss Cross Jazz, 1999)

• Wynton Marsalis—Live At The House Of Tribe (Blue Note, 2002)

• Mike LeDonne—Night Song (Savant, 2005)

• Joe Farnsworth Quartet — My Heroes: Tribute to The Legends (Venus, 2014)

• Joe Farnsworth—Time to Swing  (Smoke Sessions, 2019)