Alex Henderson

Interview: Donald Harrison

By Alex Henderson

When alto saxophonist Donald Harrison made a name for himself in the early ‘80s as a member of drummer Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers and co-leader of a quintet with trumpeter Terence Blanchard, he was hailed as one of the Young Lions: musicians who grew up in the rock ‘n’ roll era yet committed to playing straightahead jazz. But as time passed, it became obvious that Harrison was also interested in playing everything from fusion, soul, funk, blues and hip-hop to classical music and his associations have ranged from alto saxophonist Benny Carter and trumpeter Miles Davis to the late rapper The Notorious B.I.G. During an in-depth interview, Harrison (now 59) discussed some of his recent projects as well as highlights of his long career.

The New York City Jazz Record: In what ways have you evolved as a musician over the years?

Donald Harrison: It’s so much different from when I first started and was just studying the sounds from the records. I got a chance to play with jazz musicians of every era: the Duke’s men, the beboppers, Miles Davis, Ron Carter and everybody in between. Many people taught me the concepts in funk music and classical music, hip-hop, everything. I had the experience of playing with many of the people who innovated—in American music, in particular, but also, Caribbean music with Eddie Palmieri. Brazilian musicians. So now, I think I have the highest level of authenticity because I got it from the masters. I read something Charlie Parker said that touched me: he said that if you didn’t live it, it wouldn’t come out of your horn. So I wanted to live it. I wanted to live playing with blues musicians, funk musicians, New Orleans soul artists, everything.

TNYCJR:What are some of the most valuable lessons you learned as part of Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers in the ‘80s and how have you applied those lessons?

DH: Art Blakey used to say, “Let the punishment fit the crime in terms of music. If you’re playing the blues, understand how to play the blues.” He used to say, “Find the essence of each song and then, tell your story from that perspective. You don’t have anything to prove, but play what comes naturally to you.” Art had a wealth of experience playing with a lot of people and I was able to talk to him about my hero Charlie Parker and the things that Art and Bird discussed and played on the bandstand.

TNYCJR:Art knew how to push musicians to excel, whether it was Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Jackie McLean or Cedar Walton.

DH: Benny Golson talks about how after you’ve played with Art Blakey, it’s hard to play with other drummers. There was so much support with Art. His beat was wide. He was the most swinging human being on the planet.

TNYCJR: With Blakey, the Jazz Messengers certainly got a real sense of history.

DH: Oh, of course. Art Blakey played with everybody. And he shared his knowledge with us. He had his own way of looking at things; he spent time in Africa and brought that to jazz. He had a soulful touch. And Art Blakey was very open-minded. I remember: we brought some synthesizers and Art said, “Bring them onto the bandstand.” Art was into whatever we were thinking about. Art would come up with a drum orchestration for each song; he would listen to it one time, then he would have—in my estimation—the perfect drum orchestration to make it sound incredible. He played like a composer on the drums to fit all of the nuances of how the song was put together. Art would ask me what I was hearing on my song and I would say, “What you’re hearing is way better than what I’m hearing. So let’s keep what you came up with.”

TNYCJR: You’ve certainly played a wide range of music over the years, from hardbop to fusion to hip-hop to AfroCuban jazz to funk.

DH: Yeah, I mean, I grew up listening to funk music and soul music and going to second lines in New Orleans. I’m part of AfroNew Orleans culture and what comes out of Congo Square, basically, and I grew up dancing to a lot of different music. So, I put all of those elements together to find who I am. I grew up with gospel music, the blues. [Saxophonist] Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson took me aside when I was in my 20s and showed me what I call his blues matrix. One of the things Eddie told me was, “Find the blues in everything and keep that essence in what you do.” I’m very fortunate that so many great alto players have mentored me: Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson, Benny Carter—I played on a tribute to Benny with a bunch of saxophone players when he turned 90 [in 1997]. Benny was 90 years old and he was still playing great.

TNYCJR: Over the years, you’ve worked with so many greats who have since passed away, from Lena Horne to Miles Davis.

DH: Those people all impart a certain wisdom if you listen. You have to listen; that’s the key. The first thing, even as an audience member and not a musician, is you listen—and then, you become a student of the music. When you’re listening, you’re studying as well. I have a thing I tell students: if a sponge doesn’t take in water when you squeeze it, nothing will come out. So take in as much as you can and the more you take in, the more that can come out.

TNYCJR: What are some of your fondest memories of playing with Eddie Palmieri?

DH: One of the things that Eddie does is give you a CD or tape of important music from Cuba or Puerto Rico—AfroCaribbean music in general—and then, you study it and try to decipher it. For me, Eddie is like the Charlie Parker of AfroCaribbean, AfroCuban, AfroPuerto Rican music or whatever you want to call it. And he gives you the freedom to explore. It’s music of the people that they can dance to and love to dance to, but it’s also music for the musicians where you’re free to stretch. I’m very content to have played with Eddie and he has influenced what I’ve done with jazz music.

TNYCJR: You have found the jazz possibilities in so many different types of music.

DH: If I listen to opera, I can hear how it can go into jazz. If I’m listening to James Brown, I can hear how it goes into jazz. If I’m listening to Lena Horne doing Broadway, I can hear how it goes into jazz. If I’m listening to hip-hop, I can hear how it goes into jazz.

TNYCJR: When did you first become aware of hip-hop?

DH: I became aware of hip-hop with a song called “Rapper’s Delight”. I think that was the late ‘70s.

TNYCJR: 1979. The Sugarhill Gang.

DH: 1979. So then, when I was going to New York, I started going to the Bronx to see where this music was coming from. And I got a chance to see some of those early hip-hop groups. I went to Madison Square Garden, where I saw Whodini and Run-D.M.C. I started doing rhymes and started doing my thing with hip-hop and actually, I mentored one of the guys who was considered the king of East Coast rap in the ‘90s, The Notorious B.I.G., and helped him put jazz elements in hip-hop. I was able to play with Guru’s Jazzmatazz and a group called Digable Planets. I keep working on trying to sharpen my rapping skills and I get some respect as a rapper.

TNYCJR: What are some of your memories of working with The Notorious B.I.G.?

DH: The Notorious B.I.G. was a hard worker. If you gave him an assignment, he would come back the next day and he had mastered it. Not just worked on it, mastered it. He took things like putting the snare drums from a jazz solo into hip-hop into his rhymes. And he lived the lifestyle he was rapping about. Even though some older people may not understand what he was saying, the kids understood it. The Notorious B.I.G. was a symbol of hope to those who were considered less than. He was telling the downtrodden they could achieve.

TNYCJR: Obviously, you’ve never been the type of jazz musician who only likes jazz.

DH: Without other styles of music, jazz wouldn’t be what it is. Jazz was born of mixing different elements together. If they’re happy playing a style of music and don’t want to add anything else to it—just want to explore from that perspective—then I think they have the right to do that. But I don’t think that jazz is the only music that should exist.

TNYCJR: On YouTube, there’s a clip of Buddy Rich appearing on The Mike Douglas Show in 1971 and he’s ranting against Glen Campbell and talking about how awful he thought country music was. And yet, Charlie Parker liked country music. Bird enjoyed listening to Hank Williams, Sr.

DH: Buddy Rich was a great drummer; you can’t take that away from him. But sometimes, people can have blinders on. I don’t have a problem with him not listening to that music, but I don’t think you should put other people down for liking what they like. Personally, I grew up when Glen Campbell was on the radio. He was on the radio in my youth and if I heard him, I would have a good time listening. And plus, my mother and my father played every style of music that you can imagine at home. Indian music, classical music, Broadway, Charlie Parker, Etta James, James Brown, Hank Williams, everything. I don’t have any musical prejudices. I listen to everything because of how my parents were.

TNYCJR: What are some of your current projects?

DH: I just did a record with Dr. Eddie Henderson. His invention was so relentless. There was so much to decipher. And I have a new recording called The Eclectic Jazz Revolution of Unity. It’s a two-CD set; the first CD is an acoustic jazz band. The second CD is a lot of different types of music, from jazz with hip-hop influences to straight hip-hop to R&B/soul, Chicago stepping music. Dr. Lonnie Smith is on there... For organ players, Lonnie’s the man. To get support from Lonnie is really wonderful. Lonnie has helped a lot of young musicians. He’s a great master. I’ll be playing with him at the end of [December] down in New Orleans.

TNYCJR: Another organ icon you’ve played with is the late Jack McDuff.

DH: I started with Roy Haynes—Roy showed me a lot of things as well—but my second gig was with Jack McDuff. When I see George Benson, we talk about Jack McDuff. When you play with certain bands, it’s like a brotherhood of musicians who play with people—like Miles Davis has his brotherhood, Art Blakey has his brotherhood. George has a reverence for Jack McDuff.

TNYCJR: You also played with Miles Davis in the ‘80s.

DH: The first time I played with Miles Davis, I was a changed person. There was something about his proficiency and how the music was put together; every note was just in the right place. That’s the lesson I got.

For more information, visit donaldharrison.com. Harrison is at SubCulture Jan. 11th with The Cookers as part of Winter Jazzfest and Drom Jan. 16th. See Calendar. 

Recommended Listening:

• Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers—Oh-By The Way (Timeless, 1982)

• Donald Harrison/Terence Blanchard—Black Pearl (CBS/Columbia, 1988)

• Donald Harrison—Indian Blues (Candid, 1991)

• Roy Haynes—Te-Vou! (Dreyfus, 1994)

• Donald Harrison—Nouveau Swing (Impulse!, 1996)

• Donald Harrison/Ron Carter/Billy Cobham—This Is Jazz (Live at the Blue Note) (Half Note, 2011)