Alex Henderson

Interview: Johnny O'Neal

By Alex Henderson

Singer/pianist Johnny O’Neal showed considerable promise when he was based in New York City from 1981-86, working with Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers, Dizzy Gillespie and other jazz giants. But O’Neal fell into relative obscurity after returning to his native Detroit in 1986 and recorded infrequently. Since his return to NYC in 2010, however, O’Neal has had a career resurgence as a fixture at Manhattan venues like Smoke, whose Smoke Sessions Records will release O’Neal’s new album In the Moment on Oct. 6th, four days before he turns 61. During a recent interview, O’Neal discussed the album and highlights of his long career.

The New York City Jazz Record: Your new album features a wide variety of songs, from “Sunday in New York” and Big Bill Broonzy’s “Just a Dream (On My Mind)” to R&B hits by The Stylistics, Whitney Houston and Earth, Wind & Fire.

Johnny O’Neal: When I did the record date, I really didn’t have a song list. That’s why it’s called In the Moment; I came up with those songs on the date. I don’t like not being spontaneous. And the good thing about having a working rhythm section is that it makes it much easier. It was a fun date. I’m proud of it. And I think that with the variety of songs, it should get a lot of airplay.

TNYCJR: How did saxophonist Grant Stewart and trumpeter Roy Hargrove end up becoming guests?

JO: [Producer] Paul Stache and I talked about it for a few years and when he finally gave me a date, I said, “Paul, I have an idea. I would like to have two additional musicians. I would like to have Roy Hargrove and Grant Stewart; they’re two of my favorites. Roy and I are very good friends.” Actually, we did most of the recordings in just one or two takes. The thing about recording is that most times people are never satisfied; they’re trying to go for perfection. But to me, perfection is steady growth. If a recording feels good and has a good spirit about it, go ahead and put it out. Some people will go into a studio and spend two hours on one tune; they’ll spend two hours on the first take. But we did the 16 songs on this record in five hours.

TNYCJR: The musicians on In the Moment sound like they’re very comfortable playing together.

JO: [Bassist] Ben [Rubens], [drummer] Itay [Morchi] and I have been together for a while and we have a certain tightness. That’s the great thing about having residency. You’re playing three nights a week together. You’re playing all kinds of material in clubs and it’s a paid rehearsal, pretty much. We play the tunes every night and it gets better. That’s why we really sound like a band on this record.

TNYCJR: You wrote “Sweet Monk”, one of five originals on In the Moment, in tribute to Thelonious Monk.

JO: Yes, when I wrote that, it was in tribute to Monk. I wrote that when I was in Detroit around 1997 or 1998. For this record, Grant Stewart wrote the melody out for Roy—and that was the first time I had seen my tune written out for horns. Grant played so great on it.

TNYCJR: You hung out with Monk once in New Jersey.

JO: I did, in 1979. I had met [pianist] Barry Harris in Detroit in 1979. Barry was playing with [trumpeter] Blue Mitchell and [saxophonist] Harold Land at a place in Detroit and I went up and introduced myself. Barry said, “When you come to New York, I have a surprise for you.” He didn’t tell me what it was. So, when I went to New York for a visit in 1979, Barry told me to meet him in Central Park, where he picked me up. Barry took me over to Jersey and it was such a wonderful shock when Barry said to Thelonious Monk, “Monk, this is Johnny O’Neal. I want you to hear him play.” So, we sat for hours. Monk was so very complimentary. He told me he thought I had a worldclass, wonderful touch on the piano. That always stuck with me. Actually, Monk and I share the same birthday: the 10th of October.

TNYCJR: It’s been 34 years since Concord Jazz released your first album, Coming Out, in 1983.

JO: Actually, I recorded that in 1977. It came out in 1983, but I recorded it in ’77. It sat in the can... When I recorded Coming Out, I had never dreamt of having my own recording. How that happened was I was playing in Gary, Indiana; it was a Top 40 type of a gig. I saw [bassist] Ray Brown playing in Chicago on an off day. I said, “I’m going to go meet Ray Brown.” So, I did. I went to the Jazz Showcase in Chicago and Ray was playing. I walked up to him and said, “Mr. Brown, my name is Johnny O’Neal. I’m a pianist from Detroit.” I had the nerve to ask Ray if I could sit in. Of course, he didn’t let me. Ray said, “We have a policy. We don’t allow sit-ins.” So, I waited until the very end of the set; they had packed up everything and I was still hanging out. I went up and started playing. Ray Brown had already packed his bass up, but about five minutes after I started playing, he looked up and saw me playing the piano. Ray came up on stage and said, “We have a young Oscar Peterson on the stage here. How would you like to do your first record?” Two weeks later, they flew me out to Concord. That was how my first record came about in 1977.

TNYCJR: One of the songs you included was Billy Joel’s hit “Just the Way You Are”. And you’re still interpreting rock songs as jazz after all these years.

JO: At the time, in 1977, “Just the Way You Are” was new. Billy Joel’s version had just come out and it got a lot of airplay. And you know, I still play “Just the Way You Are” on occasion. When I play it, people love it. I try to find songs that have a nice harmonic structure—and a nice melody, of course.

TNYCJR: One of the R&B songs you interpret on In the Moment is “After the Love Is Gone”, which was a major hit for Earth, Wind & Fire in 1979. Founder Maurice White had been a jazz drummer in Chicago in his pre-Earth, Wind & Fire days.

JO: Yes, Maurice was multi-talented. And “After the Love Is Gone” has such a nice melody. I had never heard anyone do it with a trio so I thought it would have a nice flair to do it that way.

TNYCJR: “People Make the World Go Round”, another song you perform as an instrumental on In the Moment, was one of The Stylistics’ major hits and a definitive example of Philly soul in the ‘70s.

JO: I love “People Make the World Go Round”. And that’s my own arrangement on this record. It gets a great response when I play it live. People love that tune. I play it quite a bit in my show... I love Philly. Philly was one of the most influential cities when it comes to this music. Some of the greatest players came out of that city. Philly left a lasting impression on me because the first time I played there was with Art Blakey. It was Art, Terence Blanchard, Billy Pierce, Donald Harrison, Charles Fambrough and myself.

TNYCJR: That would have been around 1982.

JO: Yes, around 1982. After I moved to New York from Detroit, I got that gig in Philly. I had previously played with [trumpeter[ Clark Terry in Atlanta in 1980. I told Clark I would be moving to New York and Clark said, “When you move to New York, give me a call.” It so happened that when I moved to New York, I saw that Clark Terry was appearing at the Blue Note. So, I called him and said, “This is Johnny O’Neal, who played with you in Atlanta. Who’s playing with you at the Blue Note?” Clark said, “You are.” Clark was looking for a piano player. When I moved to New York, I opened for Clark Terry for a week at the Blue Note and Art Blakey asked me to play with him in the Jazz Messengers. Art picked me himself. That was one of the most gratifying things. And playing with Art, I had to learn how to write and arrange because it was mandatory with him; you had to bring in a lot of original tunes. And look at all the tunes that came out of the Jazz Messengers with Wayne Shorter and all the people he had in his band. A lot of classics came out of that institution and I was honored to be a part of it.

TNYCJR: You’ve been back in New York for seven years.

JO: Right, but I would come back occasionally to visit. One reason I came back to New York was because my mother took sick. It had gotten to where I had to put my mother in a nursing home. She needed a lot of care because she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. That was really an ordeal. When I put her in a nursing home, my son—who lives in New York—said, “Dad, why don’t you go back to New York?” I said, “New York? New York is for the youngsters.” But I was proven wrong because when I came back to New York, I was so embraced and welcomed immediately. To be able to have residencies here like I’ve had, you can only do that in New York. And my crowds have been in different parts of the city, from Harlem and uptown to downtown. I advise all the young kids, “When you have a residency, treat it as an event so that it keeps a certain kind of freshness. Be consistent.” And that’s what I try to do: be consistent musically, even if I’m not feeling the best. When people come in and see me perform, I’m going to give 110%.

TNYCJR: In light of how glad you are to be living in New York again and the fact that you’ve performed Billy Joel’s songs in the past, have you considered recording “New York State of Mind?”

JO: You know, that’s a tune that I’ve kind of let escape me, but I’m glad you reminded me because I should put that back in my repertoire. That’s a great tune. It was very popular in the ‘70s and I used to play it a lot when I was doing the Top 40 gigs in Detroit. It’s pop, but it has kind of a jazz harmony and jazz chord progressions. And the lyrics are just so gratifying. That tune really epitomizes the whole essence of New York.

TNYCJR: Jack Segal-Marvin Fisher‘s “She Doesn’t Know (I Love Her)”, also on In the Moment, is a song vocalist Joe Williams recorded. You have credited him with your decision to do more singing. 

JO: Right. Joe did it as a ballad. I thought I would put a little different twist on it and do it in a more rhythmic way with a lot of stops and syncopation... I had the pleasure of meeting Joe Williams in Kansas City and my career as a singer was kind of reinvented because of him. My first love was piano playing; I never intended to be a vocalist. But now, the singing and piano playing pretty much go hand in hand for me because of Joe Williams. Joe was the one who advised me to sing more. Joe heard me one night and at the time I wasn’t really singing that much. Joe heard me singing and he came up to me and said, “I’m going to tell you something, young man. You are a great singer. You should start singing more. I like your phrasing, I like your tone. You’re a really good blues shouter. If you’ve got it, flaunt it. It will certainly enhance your career.” And I’ve been singing ever since.

For more information, visit mrjohnnyoneal.com. O’Neal celebrates his new release at Smoke Oct. 27th-29th. See Calendar.

Recommended Listening:

• Johnny O’Neal—Coming Out (Concord, 1977)

• Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers— Oh-By The Way (Timeless, 1982)

• Ed Thigpen—Easy Flight (Reckless, 1990)

• Johnny O’Neal—On The Montreal Scene (Justin Time, 1995)

• Johnny O’Neal—Live at Smalls (smallsLIVE, 2013)

• Johnny O’Neal—In The Moment (Smoke Sessions, 2017)